How do you beat a 3-wider?

[bonyan]

Hey guys, I play on TB and use a sort of defensive FST strategy. I just want to to know if you guys could give me some tips on how to counter a a good 3 wider. For some reason, I usually have an easier time against a 4 wide than i do with a 3 wide. Looking forward to your replies, thanks!

[illnaka]

While there are probably a number of different wants to be comboer, the only way Ive ever been able to consistently beat one is by doing a lot of tspins. So by starting out with a tspin setup. Sending it within about 4 seconds then doing another one from that. Then I just keep sending them. This limits how high the player will be able to stack which decreases the amount of lines they will be able to send you from the combo.

[SirJeivus]

My personal thoughts on beating a 3-wider in TB are constant B2Bing, or either combo yourself to neutralize his.

For me personally though, pressure is important in dealing with comboers for sure. If you have the OSZ setup, doing the JTSM would not pressure him enough, so with those combination of pieces I would rather just stack and build a tetris.

But of course, I'm T-spin orientated...so I would just spam the T-spins

[Johnny147]

I basically agree with illnaka. I have had the most difficulty with comboers in past. You want to limit how high the comboer can stack, so the faster you can send lines the better. TSD's do this better than anything. Do them as quick as possible and when they start their combo, nullify as much as possible. It's especially important to keep your field very neat at this point, because you may need to ds their garbage as quick as possible. The other option is to do a combo yourself, but I find that too risky. Also if you're the slower player, then you're already at a disadvantage.

[ohstephanie]

I don't play a lot of combo opening players, but when I do I try to top them out before they start their combos. Or if I see that they're setting up a combo, I set up my own and try to out combo them.
Hope this helps!

[bonyan]

Nice replies guys, they're very helpful. I think doing TSDs to neutralize the incoming combos is a good idea. Usually when i see the other guy begin dropping the combos, i freak out and just downstack as much as i can. it does help but it relies too much on the garbage where as a timed TSD could just eliminate the garbage before it even gets to the field. i'll try this and see if it'll work well for me lol, thank you

[SirJeivus]

Make sure not to MD (misdrop) at the start, that's the worst. On occasion, I will lose to the 4w-er because I MD'd and couldn't pressure him enough lol.

[es2mac]

so it seems that having a good set of openings and throwing them out quickly and accurately is a good idea

[SirJeivus]

For a FST-er, yeah.

[Alexsweden]

I usually do a quick c-spin to send some garbage to the opponent. It is very important to get of at least the TST before your opponent starts comboing
Link about c-spin

harddrop.com/wiki/Triple_Double_Attack_Setups

[Anonymous1]

T-spinning at the beginning is definitely the way to go. However, you can use them for more than just neutralizing/canceling out your opponent's garbage sends. You can also use T-spins at the beginning of the game to limit the height of his field.

For instance, you can send your opponent 10 lines if you get a T-spin and then a b2b T-spin (4 lines for a T-spin, 6 lines for b2b T-spin) before he can begin his combo. If you do this, your opponent can at most build up 10 lines to combo you (although he might be able to extend his combo by a few using the bombs). If you can send your opponent a T-spin and two b2bs before he starts his combo, then he'll get 16 lines and his combo will be even weaker.

[es2mac]

On TB, one of the problems people have beeen having, using this strategy, is that the comboer gets KO'd (or lets himself get KO'd) by the first 2~3 T-spins/tetrises, builds higher (but without giving up a second KO), combos down to get back a KO (even 2) and ends up with a higher line sent.

Could be a problem of the t-spinner being slower than the comboer, or that the t-spinner doesn't have a punchy enough follow-up after the opening...

[bonyan]

On TB, one of the problems people have beeen having, using this strategy, is that the comboer gets KO'd (or lets himself get KO'd) by the first 2~3 T-spins/tetrises, builds higher (but without giving up a second KO), combos down to get back a KO (even 2) and ends up with a higher line sent.

Could be a problem of the t-spinner being slower than the comboer, or that the t-spinner doesn't have a punchy enough follow-up after the opening...

This is a very good point. some t-spinners that i know of decide to play the waiting game instead so they'll get k.o'd once instead of two times.

[Alexsweden]

in TB all you need go do is to ST stack everyone to death no but jokes aside ST stacking is very good as it sends more lines than 4w in the long run. Sure a 4w middle guy might get the upperhand at the start both with lines sent and KOs but your constant pressure will win in the eventually. But you have to be fairly quick and you cant afford to md really :/

[MarioThePhenom]

spam tetris's, if you're fast enough at them you'll get 5 ko's before he can ko you three times

[ohstephanie]

spam tetris's, if you're fast enough at them you'll get 5 ko's before he can ko you three times

lol or that ^

i'd say go with one tetris, then leave an opening so you can ds his garbage when he starts comboing
usually combo openers aren't strong after their combo is through with

[tfn]

I spam pclear. lol.

[barneey]

Perfect Clear doesn't have a 100% success rate, so if you fail, you're pretty much guaranteed dead, because you've got nothing to counter the massive combo imcoming.

I like to just open with t-spins/tetrises to hopefully not allow them to build their 3 wide to a point where it becomes a threat

[tfn]

no, I mean. spam. If the first attempt failed. I still do it until the combo starts. In TOP I usually can do 2-3 if my opponent sets for 3wide/4wide.

[SirJeivus]

I believe es2mac did a full out mathematical analysis on the probability of performing a perfect clear, and it was 60% chance, with the use of hold, yes? If you have the calculations es2mac, you want to share them here?

[es2mac]

Ah it was many moons ago, and in Chinese. I guess I could do something in English, when I'm less lazy...
But I think what tfn means is that if it's gonna fail the first time, leave the spot for that "last piece" and start doing the second PC as if the first has happened.

[tfn]

^ that's exactly what I'm doing. and if the second attempt still fail. lololol. I'm dead.

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